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Running issue under load (Read 271 times)
TK29
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Running issue under load
25.02.25 at 00:32:18
 
Hi all,

I have spent the last year rebuilding my 1984 yamaha xv1000 tr1, the bike has about 24k miles so no serious work on engine was required, did do some basics checks, adjusted valve clearance as per Haynes manual, check clutch plates for warpage or ware, cleaned out oil strainer and change oil filter. I had engine and carbs bead blasted and cerakoted. Engine and carbs were then rebuilt meticulously, I had to clean the carbs a number of times to ensure all the glass bead was removed this meant completely dismantling all components of the carbs, the cabs were then bench balanced and pilot crews set to generic three tunes out (winter UK) to get the bike running.

After getting the bike back together I turned it over and nothing, would not fire, after some checks I determined that the green and orange output wires from the TCI unit to the ignition coils had been switched, so instead of diving back into the wiring I simply switch the HT leads around on the ignition coils and the bike fired up, after a lot of checks and sorting oil leaks on the cylinder head oil lines the bike was running fine in idle and raving up, I set the pilot screws running one cylinder at a time finding the sweet spot, vacuum balanced the carbs using a manometer up to about sixty percent throttle as I didn't have a fan to keep the engine cool.  

The Issue
I am getting no power when I take the bike out on the road, on opening the throttle in first gear the bike bogs down, sputters and back fires there is no smooth progression of power.  

These symptoms suggested to me there was a fuelling issue so the following was done to systematically eliminate possible causes.

Things I've Checked/Replaced (parts named according to Haynes manual)
1. Fuel supply (checked fuel was flowing from left and right fuel cocks adequately to replenish carb bowls)
2. Needle jet & jet needle (checked for blockages as fuel issue was suspected, all was as it should be on both jet needle letting more air through as I moved it up inside the needle jet)
3. Choke assembly (checked for leaks as this could cause the same symptoms richening the mix and causing back firing, no leaks found and choke assembly was sealing well)
4. Float level (was exactly where it should be as per the Hyaenas manual)
5. Ignition Coils (checked resistance in primary and secondary coils was within spec)
6. Spark (check for spark strength, got good spark form both plugs replaced as were slightly fouled and re-gaped new spark plugs)
7. Vacuum leaks (looked for vacuum leaks on the air side there are no leaks)

I have found no obvious issue with any of the checks listed above that could be causing the issue and stated to check some less likely causes.

1. Compression test (did a compression test for peace of mind more than anything else, with a cold engine I was getting 120psi in both cylinders which gave me aforementioned peace of mind)
2. Re-check valve clearance (Re-did valve clearance on both cylinders to ensure I hadn’t made a mistake, found no mistakes)

This is where I am at now, having found nothing reaching out to you lot for some pointers. I am starting to suspect the TCI unit as this is responsible for the spark advance which could be causing the issue but at the same time the bike wouldn’t rev up to over 4000 RPM if this unit was faulty so I am at a bit of a loss.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Teddy

 
« Last Edit: 25.02.25 at 09:44:04 by TK29 »  

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BSchneider2000
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Bike: TR1 (5A8)   130000km selbst gefahren.
Re: Running issue under load
Reply #1 - 25.02.25 at 05:39:41
 
Hello TK29,

First of all, welcome to the forum.
Do you also have a name?

Regarding your problem:
Too much fuel is also bad for performance, ...what do your spark plugs look like after the test drive (black, wet)??
Is the ignition timing correct?? (... check with the ignition gun on the left side of the engine / sight glass)
Or maybe your secondary-air-mixture-control-valve (sniffer) is stuck (... try disconnecting it or spraying it with starter spray).
Greetings Brunò  Cool

 
 

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hornschorsch
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Re: Running issue under load
Reply #2 - 26.02.25 at 14:01:13
 
Quote:
carbs bead blasted and cerakoted

Perhaps this is the problem... Can you try a different pair of carbs that have not been restored to death...

 
 

Gruss,
Schorsch

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TK29
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Re: Running issue under load
Reply #3 - 26.02.25 at 14:07:46
 
Hi Brunò,

Thanks very much, my name is Teddy Ive added that in now, completely slipped my mind while writing the post!

Yes I thought the same, that you would get pretty similar symptoms whether it be running too rich or too lean so was looking for either while doing all the checks. I did check these after the attempted run but don't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary, they weren't drenched in fuel or soot.

I didn't check the timing simply because the bike was running well before all the work and I haven't done anything to alter it but it is worth checking just to eliminate it, as it is possible when I replaced timing chain tensioner gaskets that timing could have slipped, I have ordered a timing light and will get back to you.

I am not sure where/if I have this on my carbs, I know them pretty intimately now having taken them apart so many times! the carbs have been modified to a full flow system and re-jetted accordingly and they have been running like this since 2019 with no issues.

Cheers

 
 

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BSchneider2000
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Re: Running issue under load
Reply #4 - 28.02.25 at 01:20:29
 
Hello Teddy,

ignition timing and chain tensioner have nothing to do with each other.
With the ignition gun you can only check whether the ignition box (TCI) ignites
at the right point, or whether the ignition timing changes on its own (or is defective).
There is nothing you can adjust on the TCI.

If you have only replaced the seal on the chain tensioner, ... i.e. unscrew the chain tensioner,
put in a new seal, put the chain tensioner back on, ... nothing can be change.

However, if you have turned the crankshaft without a chain tensioner and
your timing chain is already "very" worn out, it could have jumped
(rather unlikely at 24,000 mph, but possible).
Hm, hm, ... then have fun.  undecided

You write about electrical faults.
Maybe changing the HT cables is not enough and you still have an error,
e.g. on the connector at the bottom of the rear cylinder (control line for the TCI),
...and have therefore swapped the cables (green/orange) on the TCI.
And now the tricky electrics are getting out of control. Evil smiley
Test everything.

What I don't quite understand is...did you work on the carburettor "now" or in 2019 ??
Maybe there's still a small diamond in a small hole?!

Greetings Brunò  Cool


 
« Last Edit: 05.03.25 at 08:02:58 by BSchneider2000 »  

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Anja-D
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Bike: 1981 TR1. (5A8), modified with XV1100 (3LP) Eng.
Re: Running issue under load
Reply #5 - 02.03.25 at 20:06:30
 
Hello Teddy,
it is a good idea th test your bike with a complete original Carb. to check out proper operation of the engine it self.

To check your Camshaft position it is realy easy. Therefore you have to remove the front cover of the left engine cover( not the hole thing, just the Round Cover, 3 Screws, to see the timing inspection window.  Additional the Plug in the center to get access the the crankcase.
Now remove the both Cam-Shaft-Covers on each Cylinder Head. The forward(Cylinder #2) is equiped with the Cankcase brether tube.
After removing the spark plags, you start with the rear Cylinder (#1) .

1. You need suitable tools to turn the Crankcase, turn the crankcase clockwise , see the direction arrow on the Cover.
2. try to seal the rear Spark plug threat wit one finger, turn the Crankcase until you feel increasing pressure at you finger. Then you are in the Compression stroke of Cylinder one.
3. Now, have a look the the Timing inspection window and turn the crankcase a little more until the smal inticator allign with the fly-wheel mark "T". Now, check the markings of Camshaft rear cylinder (#1). You will find two markings. 1st on 12 O`clock position of Cyl-head housing, 2nd o n the Camshaft sproket wheel (a dot). These both marking shall in a line from Cyl-Head-Housing and the Center of the Mounting Screw of Camshaft Sproket Wheel. A little bit to the left or to the right is OK.
4. If it is OK go a head with forward cylinder (#2). To get in the Compression Stroke of cyl 2 seal the spark plug threat as before and turn the Crankcase nearly 285 °, If you feel the pressere rising, have a look the Timing insoction window and turn the crankcase slowly to the marking  " I ". This is the markig for Top ead center of cyl 2. To check the Cam shaft positio go ahead like on cyl 1. Check the alligning of the markings.
5. If both cylnder match the recomended ajustments, it is OK.  

Cgrankcase Markings: Have look at this link: https://www.tr1.de/pages/technics_manual.php?key=XV750se&lng=eng&flg=0&pge=2021
Camshaft Markings:    Have look at this link: https://www.tr1.de/pages/technics_manual.php?key=XV750se&lng=eng&flg=0&pge=3106

If not the is a little work ahead. A TIP: Do not take out the Cam shain tensioner first.
If it is neccassary to adjust the Camshaft Sproket-wheel position, you has to loose the Mounting Screw of it.
To do this, use the tools you had used for turning the Crankcase and a suitable wrench for the Mountig screw. After loosing the mounting screw,do not srew it out.
1) Now , at first check the position of the Cylinder in the Crankcase as before. This is neccessary to be sure that the Basic adjustment is correct.
2) Take out the Cam Chain tensioner
3) turn out the Mounting screw of the Cam-chain-sproket-wheel.
4) Be aware the nothing can falling into the Cam Chain chanel.
5) Addention: there is no much room to operate, so be careful. try to remove the sprokrt wheel from the Cam shaft end.
Be aware, that the small pin between Cam shaft and sproket wheel do not fall off ! It is fixation between both parts.
6) to adjust the sproket wheel position you can turn the spoket wheel a tooth fore or aft whatever is neccessary to get the proper position.
Notice: The chain site in opposite to the tensioner is to hold staight during adjustment.

7) If you have got it, screw in the mounting srew until it come in contact with the Sproket wheel. Then install the tensioner with a new gasket/Joint.
Finally tighten the mounting screw acording the recomended torque value. In the same fashion you had loose it before.
Install all before removed parts. Do not forget the Plug-Screw of the crankcase access.

so far, good luck
Regards
Anja






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TR1 seit 1982, die aktuelle seit 1988, schraube und fahre selbst
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Anja-D
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Bike: 1981 TR1. (5A8), modified with XV1100 (3LP) Eng.
Re: Running issue under load
Reply #6 - 02.03.25 at 20:17:42
 
Hello again,
I forgot a liitle Remark:
You said, the malfunktion of Ignition happens around 4000rpm?

A reason for that can be an incorrect working Carburettor or
The ignition control unit it self.
Check whether the installed Ignition box is the original one for your bike/engine.

In my case, I had made the experiance, that the Fly Wheel of the XV1100 not match with the OEM TR1 TCI Unit. In this combination the misfiring was also around 4000 rpm even with accerating  rpm rapiditly.

Anja



 
 

TR1 seit 1982, die aktuelle seit 1988, schraube und fahre selbst
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BSchneider2000
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Re: Running issue under load
Reply #7 - 03.03.25 at 02:39:18
 
Hello Teddy,

Anja gave me an idea: Do you still have the mixture control valve (sniffer) installed?
This valve opens at about 4000 rpm and releases additional air into the front carburetor.
The hose line for this has a Y-distributor, ...this has a smaller opening on one side.
This smaller connection MUST point towards the mixture control valve.
See here:
https://www.tr1.de/pages/technics_manual.php?key=XV750se&lng=eng&flg=0&pge=4011
If the Y-distributor is installed incorrectly, the front carburetor receives too little fuel and too much air.
Greetings Bruno Cool

 
 

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